What Does it Mean to Be a Man Today?

You grew up in suburbs of Paris, a straight Martial Arts fighter turned model/actor. Why were you drawn to the world of Martial Arts, and how does that sport relate to your idea of “being a man”?

I started with martial arts at the age of six. It was an attempt to cure the developmental coordination disorder I was suffering from as a kid. As a teenager, I didn’t fit into the established social and educational patterns of the world around me. It hurt to feel rejected, and I didn’t know better than to turn that pain into violence. In the MMA cages I experienced a new sort of freedom. I was praised for being aggressive. I eventually made it to European champion in 2018. So, in a way, this sport helped me develop as a man. But: No matter how loud ‘masculinists’ yell, hitting someone in the face will never grow you more hair or thicker balls. (laughs) From today’s perspective I’d say that sensitivity and vulnerability play a much bigger role in being a man.

Photo: Marc Martin • L’Arme(s) d’Achille.

In the Martial Arts world: did you ever hear any discussions about “masculinity” in the locker room or during competitions?

No, that was never a discussion point. The only words I can remember were “C’mon, hit harder!” and “Show them you’re not a fag!”

How many non-heterosexual people did you encounter in the Martial Arts world?

None! The men I met in the MMA universe identified as heterosexuals. Some of them were linking weakness with homosexuality, and homosexuality with femininity. They were afraid of losing any inch of what they believed their manhood was made of. As if confessing to anything they associated with “weakness” would take their manhood away, threatening to expose them as “femmes” or “fags.” I find this deeply arrogant, misogynist and homophobic.

Photo: Marc Martin • Chardons.

Did you, as a teenager, ever worry about not being “man” enough?

Being active in sports since I was a boy, I put on bulk very early. As a teenager, I was more muscular than other guys my age, so I never experienced any fear of not looking manly enough. Yet, I have often witnessed that boys and young men lacking self-confidence are likelier to engage in fruitless competition and fights, as if they blamed others for their fears and hated them for that.

How did you first get involved with modeling/acting? And how did your family react to this?

I’ve always been keen on performing. To me, MMA has been another kind of show-business. The spotlight is on you, be it in a photo shoot, on a filmset, on a catwalk or in a MMA cage. Cuddling with someone while shooting a scene or trying to knock them out during combat … it’s a show, and I couldn’t tell you which I enjoy most. I’m aware some people might struggle trying to find a link here, but to me it’s still all a performance. As for my family, they’ve always told me they’re proud of me. We’re very close.

Photo: Marc Martin • L’homme aux bains.

You’ve worked a lot with French photographer Marc Martin, an openly gay artist famous for his sex-positive work.

I first met Marc in Paris when I visited his exhibition about gay cruising in public toilets. It quickly became clear that we share a passion for subcultures. To me, his work is a modern-day “poetry of the underworld,” and I like that a lot. Our first project was the very tender short movie Mon CRS. After that, I was the one who came up with the idea of me posing nude. And three years later, here we are, with a 300 page book and an exhibition at the prestigious Galerie Obsession in Paris, which was designed by Jacques Grange, Yves Saint Laurent’s favorite designer. (laughs)

What did your family and friends say about you being in Marc Martin photos and movies?

My family were thrilled! I can’t help quoting my mother’s words at Galerie Obsession upon sighting the one and (so I thought) well-hidden picture of me with an erection: “I’m so glad my son has chosen this very casual, cheeky approach that I didn’t dare to take myself when I was his age.” As for friends, I’ve lost a few. I guess their open-mindedness was taxed too much by “On m’a traité de P…,” a photograph of me hitch-hiking naked on high heels on an open road in broad daylight. It was Marc’s idea to pay tribute to Madonna’s SEX 30 years after it was released. I suggested we should do it in the Parisian suburbs, a stone throw away from where I won my first MMA combats. There was a lot of traffic, some truck drivers even honked at us. I understand that not everybody was amused. (laughs) But the result is one my favorite pictures. I’d love to know how Madonna would react to it.

Photo: Marc Martin • Faunes.

In your projects with Marc you have explored different types of “masculinities.” What does such an exploration mean to you?

In these projects, my nudity is definitely a form of rebellion against the prevailing prudishness, especially on social media where, to quote Madonna again, we’re drowning in hypocrisy. “Free speech” increasingly means it is okay to post a statement calling for groups of people to be “eliminated,” yet you can’t post a picture of your own ass? Marc and I take pleasure in dusting the patriarchy off classical works. Our reinterpretation of the Rokeby Venus shows the body of a strong man in the lascivious posture of an odalisque, this can be read as us flipping toxic masculinity around.

Photo: Marc Martin • Mathis au miroir.

As a straight man, you are seen in the book (and exhibition) So What?! having sex with a trans man. The discussion about trans rights – and trans bodies – is currently very heated, especially in the USA with Donald Trump. Do you see your work with Marc and Jona James as a plea for more openness and for trying new paths?

Well, this series is not just about me having sex with a trans man. It’s also about putting love, diversity and inclusion into a space from which they are traditionally banned. Jona is a young trans boxer. We train together, we share the same changing room, the same group showers. And yes, to put it explicitly, we fuck. By doing so, we’re telling the hate mob to go fuck themselves. When I carry Jona as the winner in the ring, not only do we invalidate Trump’s attempt to make trans people invisible again and deprive them of their rights, but Jona is smiling from ear to ear. Love and respect for all is the message.

Photo: Marc Martin • Victoria.

How has all of this changed your own sex life and maybe your relationships?

Jona didn’t change my sex life or relationships. I’ve always been open, curious and fluid. What has changed, though, is that I’m now willing to fight like I’ve never done before: for him and his brothers and sisters. I’m ready to use my position as a white, cis, straight male to help build bridges.

What’s coming next? Any big plans?

I’d love to see our exhibition “Tomber des nu(e)s” tour the world. Argentina is in discussions right now, and who knows, this interview might help showing it in the US. (laughs) I want to believe that America can still host something like this, even in the era of Donald Trump.

Photo: Marc Martin • Sehnsucht (l’autre rive de Narcisse).

PLAYGIRL has presented nude men since 1973, as a feminist equivalent to the older magazine PLAYBOY. What are your thoughts on the publication that has a large gay readership, too? (Are feminists and gay men sworn allies, in some way?)

I love the idea of the male body being reclaimed as an object of desire. Isn’t that the very philosophy behind PLAYGIRL? This was transgressive back in 1973. Unfortunately, I’m afraid it remains transgressive today. Feminists and the LGBTQ communities, among others, are now under attack. It’s only fair and right that they should keep fighting back together. Let all the desires some call “messy” flood in!

Mathis Chevalier Instagram:  @mathis_chevalier

Marc Martin Instagram:  @things_that_stink